Discussion:
atheism is not a religion - but it can be.
(too old to reply)
Carl Wills
2008-04-01 04:07:55 UTC
Permalink
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Milan
2008-04-01 04:17:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
What do you mean by "God"? Please be specific. Describe the nature,
properties and composition of the thing, so we can have a clear idea of what
you are talking about. Also, if the thing has a use, please detail it.

regards
Milan
Sanity's Little Helper
2008-04-01 08:09:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has
been and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a
religion and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of
Americans dislike atheism more than they do most of the other
repulsives in our society. Live with the facts and be thankful that
you are permitted to do so. In some societies which include the
major population of the most practiced religious belief you would be
stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
What do you mean by "God"? Please be specific. Describe the nature,
properties and composition of the thing, so we can have a clear idea
of what you are talking about. Also, if the thing has a use, please
detail it.
regards
Milan
Coathanger, the God of Missing Socks and Ballpoint Pens.
--
David Silverman D.B.E.
BAAWA
aa #2208
Lord Mayor of Dis
Lawful copyright holder of the term "Earthquack".
Holder of rights to the stage musical "The Shining".

Not authentic without this signature.
Carl Wills
2008-04-01 18:58:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
What do you mean by "God"? Please be specific. Describe the nature,
properties and composition of the thing, so we can have a clear idea of
what you are talking about. Also, if the thing has a use, please detail
it.
I'm an agnostic. I cannot define who or what composition or
properties constitute God(s). However, for me personally, the
argument that there is no evidence for God(s) is insufficent
and falls short.

I want more. I read that a scientific theory can never be proven,
no matter how many times it is confirmed by new discoveries
or new evidence. With each new confirmation you can become
increasing confident of your theory. But just one contradicting
fact can falsify your whole theory. I want to see the one single
bit of empirical evidence which contridicts the existance of God(s).

The absence of evidence in not necessarily evidence of absence.
Post by Milan
regards
Milan
Hatter
2008-04-01 20:10:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
What do you mean by "God"? Please be specific. Describe the nature,
properties and composition of the thing, so we can have a clear idea of
what you are talking about. Also, if the thing has a use, please detail
it.
I'm an agnostic. I cannot define who or what composition or
properties constitute God(s). However, for me personally, the
argument that there is no evidence for God(s) is insufficent
and falls short.
I want more. I read that a scientific theory can never be proven,
no matter how many times it is confirmed by new discoveries
or new evidence. With each new confirmation you can become
increasing confident of your theory. But just one contradicting
fact can falsify your whole theory. I want to see the one single
bit of empirical evidence which contridicts the existance of God(s).
The absence of evidence in not necessarily evidence of absence.
The God theory is not falsifiable, but ignorable

Let us say someone has a dream that there is an adanced
civilarizion(but not possessing FTL technology) on the fouth planet
around a star that is 9670 light years from earth. They propose it is
real, do you "accept this" theory as
reasonable? Or would you ignore it as unsupported?
Lets us say the 1200 years from now that we find out that there is
actually an advanced civilization on said planet. Yes, the theory was
valid, but it was...given the fact it was unsupported and untestable
it was still reasonable to ignore it. Certainly it would be
unreasonable to change our behavior and expend resources on a welcome
center for these aliens in the present time and any proposing to do so
is foolish.
Wars over what people think what these aliens want ludicrous.

Hatter
marques de sade
2008-04-01 20:15:26 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 14:58:04 -0400, "Carl Wills"
Post by Carl Wills
I want to see the one single
bit of empirical evidence which contridicts the existance of God(s).
how about the cannabis plant. would god create such a plant and
expect us not to smoke it? if so, it's his fault...
--
`We come now to the idea of the Gaeia Universe, where the whole of the Universe would be a single living entity of which all mankind is barely an organelle. But unlike the organisms of Earth, the elements of the Universe, energy and matter, are not connected by the bloody and battering interaction of consumption that we experience on Earth, but by the same forces of physics and mechanics which govern the aforementioned astronomical principles. The concept of pantheism proposes an additional connection, one of an overarching divine presence. In this divinity, mind and matter are one, and all things in the Universe are evenly connected'' --B.D. Abramson
Milan
2008-04-01 21:57:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
What do you mean by "God"? Please be specific. Describe the nature,
properties and composition of the thing, so we can have a clear idea of
what you are talking about. Also, if the thing has a use, please detail
it.
I'm an agnostic. I cannot define who or what composition or
properties constitute God(s). However, for me personally, the
argument that there is no evidence for God(s) is insufficent
and falls short.
I want more. I read that a scientific theory can never be proven,
no matter how many times it is confirmed by new discoveries
or new evidence. With each new confirmation you can become
increasing confident of your theory. But just one contradicting
fact can falsify your whole theory. I want to see the one single
bit of empirical evidence which contridicts the existance of God(s).
The absence of evidence in not necessarily evidence of absence.
Absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence. What other evidence of
absence is there for an entity other than the absence of evidence for its
existence?

The point is, what justifies proposing that there is a "god"? Why propose
there is such a thing at all? There doesnt seem to be any reason to come up
with such a propostion. Is there any evidence to suggest there is such a
thing? No. Well, then why posit it? And if there is no rational
justification for its existence, why should we bother trying to find
evidence that may contradict its existence? And what the hell is a "god"
anyway? The concept belongs in science fiction literature, not in
philosophy.

regards
Milan
Carl Wills
2008-04-02 02:34:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
What do you mean by "God"? Please be specific. Describe the nature,
properties and composition of the thing, so we can have a clear idea of
what you are talking about. Also, if the thing has a use, please detail
it.
I'm an agnostic. I cannot define who or what composition or
properties constitute God(s). However, for me personally, the
argument that there is no evidence for God(s) is insufficent
and falls short.
I want more. I read that a scientific theory can never be proven,
no matter how many times it is confirmed by new discoveries
or new evidence. With each new confirmation you can become
increasing confident of your theory. But just one contradicting
fact can falsify your whole theory. I want to see the one single
bit of empirical evidence which contridicts the existance of God(s).
The absence of evidence in not necessarily evidence of absence.
How many crimes go unsolved because of an absence of evidence?
Post by Milan
Absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence. What other evidence of
absence is there for an entity other than the absence of evidence for its
existence?
The point is, what justifies proposing that there is a "god"? Why propose
there is such a thing at all? There doesnt seem to be any reason to come
up with such a propostion. Is there any evidence to suggest there is such
a thing? No. Well, then why posit it? And if there is no rational
justification for its existence, why should we bother trying to find
evidence that may contradict its existence? And what the hell is a "god"
anyway? The concept belongs in science fiction literature, not in
philosophy.
I have an incurable disease, I have been told I have maybe six months.
I want to know.
Post by Milan
regards
Milan
Andy W
2008-04-01 23:06:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
What do you mean by "God"? Please be specific. Describe the nature,
properties and composition of the thing, so we can have a clear idea of
what you are talking about. Also, if the thing has a use, please detail
it.
I'm an agnostic. I cannot define who or what composition or
properties constitute God(s). However, for me personally, the
argument that there is no evidence for God(s) is insufficent
and falls short.
I want more. I read that a scientific theory can never be proven,
no matter how many times it is confirmed by new discoveries
or new evidence. With each new confirmation you can become
increasing confident of your theory. But just one contradicting
fact can falsify your whole theory. I want to see the one single
bit of empirical evidence which contridicts the existance of God(s).
The absence of evidence in not necessarily evidence of absence.
So to summarise:
You acknowledge that there's no evidence for any gods
You have no idea what properties a god might possess
And you want atheists to prove it doesn't exist for you, based on no
evidence and no definition, even though most atheists would not claim
to have any such proof even for themselves.

To me that seems a touch unreasonable.

The problem you have is that there isn't anything in the god
hypothesis to falsify because it doesn't make any testable
predictions.

Why was this cross-posted to alt.satanism and
alt.politics.homosexuality? It seems only marginally on topic for the
former and completely off-topic for the latter.

Andy
Carl Wills
2008-04-02 02:25:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy W
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position,
it
is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
What do you mean by "God"? Please be specific. Describe the nature,
properties and composition of the thing, so we can have a clear idea of
what you are talking about. Also, if the thing has a use, please detail
it.
I'm an agnostic. I cannot define who or what composition or
properties constitute God(s). However, for me personally, the
argument that there is no evidence for God(s) is insufficent
and falls short.
I want more. I read that a scientific theory can never be proven,
no matter how many times it is confirmed by new discoveries
or new evidence. With each new confirmation you can become
increasing confident of your theory. But just one contradicting
fact can falsify your whole theory. I want to see the one single
bit of empirical evidence which contridicts the existance of God(s).
The absence of evidence in not necessarily evidence of absence.
You acknowledge that there's no evidence for any gods
You have no idea what properties a god might possess
And you want atheists to prove it doesn't exist for you, based on no
evidence and no definition, even though most atheists would not claim
to have any such proof even for themselves.
To me that seems a touch unreasonable.
No, but it demonstrates it's all a matter of opinion. since no evidence
for or against exist.
Post by Andy W
The problem you have is that there isn't anything in the god
hypothesis to falsify because it doesn't make any testable
predictions.
Why was this cross-posted to alt.satanism and
alt.politics.homosexuality? It seems only marginally on topic for the
former and completely off-topic for the latter.
I agree, I never look at the header. Perhaps I should start.
Post by Andy W
Andy
Hatter
2008-04-02 18:55:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Andy W
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position,
it
is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
What do you mean by "God"? Please be specific. Describe the nature,
properties and composition of the thing, so we can have a clear idea of
what you are talking about. Also, if the thing has a use, please detail
it.
I'm an agnostic. I cannot define who or what composition or
properties constitute God(s). However, for me personally, the
argument that there is no evidence for God(s) is insufficent
and falls short.
I want more. I read that a scientific theory can never be proven,
no matter how many times it is confirmed by new discoveries
or new evidence. With each new confirmation you can become
increasing confident of your theory. But just one contradicting
fact can falsify your whole theory. I want to see the one single
bit of empirical evidence which contridicts the existance of God(s).
The absence of evidence in not necessarily evidence of absence.
You acknowledge that there's no evidence for any gods
You have no idea what properties a god might possess
And you want atheists to prove it doesn't exist for you, based on no
evidence and no definition, even though most atheists would not claim
to have any such proof even for themselves.
To me that seems a touch unreasonable.
No, but it demonstrates it's all a matter of opinion. since no evidence
for or against exist.
None the less it is about the same as those with the opinion ones
shoes fly around the room when one is asleep and no recording devices
are present(religionists) versus the opion of those who think they do
not(atheists). Furthermore the flying shoe believers wish to pass
laws, change textbooks, and make wars based upon their shoe flying
beliefs. That is really what is going on, and why it isn't, actually,
just a matter of opinion, it is a matter of importance.

Hatter
Andy W
2008-04-02 22:36:07 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Andy W
Post by Carl Wills
I'm an agnostic. I cannot define who or what composition or
properties constitute God(s). However, for me personally, the
argument that there is no evidence for God(s) is insufficent
and falls short.
I want more. I read that a scientific theory can never be proven,
no matter how many times it is confirmed by new discoveries
or new evidence. With each new confirmation you can become
increasing confident of your theory. But just one contradicting
fact can falsify your whole theory. I want to see the one single
bit of empirical evidence which contridicts the existance of God(s).
The absence of evidence in not necessarily evidence of absence.
You acknowledge that there's no evidence for any gods
You have no idea what properties a god might possess
And you want atheists to prove it doesn't exist for you, based on no
evidence and no definition, even though most atheists would not claim
to have any such proof even for themselves.
To me that seems a touch unreasonable.
No, but it demonstrates it's all a matter of opinion. since no evidence
for or against exist.
So if you've got no evidence you're free to pick whichever answer you
want?

Andy
Mark K. Bilbo
2008-04-02 15:49:55 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:58:04 -0400 in
I'm an agnostic. I cannot define who or what composition or properties
constitute God(s). However, for me personally, the argument that there
is no evidence for God(s) is insufficent and falls short.
Then you are a- (without) theism (belief in one or more gods). Hence,
you're an atheist.

Shocking eh?
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
They're trying to make gay people straight? Good Lord! Don't they know
what that'll do to the fall line?
-- Karen Walker
Richo
2008-04-01 04:55:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".

An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.

Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.

It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".

Cheers, Mark
Carl Wills
2008-04-01 20:45:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richo
said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
Post by Richo
Cheers, Mark
Tokay Pino Gris
2008-04-01 22:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
Depends very much what you want. If I LACK belief in gods, then I am an
atheist. i do not need to believe there are no gods to be an atheist.

We've been over this at great length in another thread.

The LACK of belief does not require evidence.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Direct empirical evidence does not point towards a god. So, I do not
believe in one. So I LACK belief in gods, therefor I am an atheist.
Post by Carl Wills
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
Since I am not really making an assertion, I don't need any evidence.

If that kind of atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair color.



Tokay
--
Your lucky number has been disconnected.
Richo
2008-04-02 00:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
You don't expect evidence of non existence for non things.
You expect a complete absence of evidence *for* the non thing - which
is exactly what we have.

And there is a great deal of evidence that humans invent gods and
other superstitions all the time.
I think the accumulated mythology of all the worlds cultures
constitute very strong evidence that people habitually "make stuff
up".
And there is nothing in the way of evidence that sets "God" apart from
all the other imaginative creations of myth - from goblins to
unicorns.
Given these two facts it is reasonable to conclude that "God" is
indeed an imaginary beast.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
OK.
I still don't believe in God.
I have no evidence that God is any different in reality to Zeus or
unicorns.
I have abundant evidence that humans are in the habit of imagining
gods.

So if its a faith its a very reasonable one that is in accord with all
evidence and in conflict with none.

Cheers, Mark
--------------------------------------------
Mark Richardson. m.richardson61 AT gmail.com

Member of SMASH
(Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheist with a Sense of Humor)

--------------------------------------------------
Milan
2008-04-02 01:46:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
One thing is clear: you are not an agnostic. You just pretend to be.

regards
Milan
Carl Wills
2008-04-02 02:13:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
One thing is clear: you are not an agnostic. You just pretend to be.
I'm not arguing for religion or atheism, but I see both religious fundies
and atheist fundies as the same. Just opposite sides of the same coin.
Post by Milan
regards
Milan
Tokay Pino Gris
2008-04-02 02:39:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
One thing is clear: you are not an agnostic. You just pretend to be.
I'm not arguing for religion or atheism, but I see both religious fundies
and atheist fundies as the same. Just opposite sides of the same coin.
Ah! Now we are somewhere! That is actually true. BUT we are talking
FUNDIES now. We weren't doing so before.

Just a tiny sidenote.... I have yet to see an atheist suicide bomber.....



Tokay
--
No wonder I feel so tired -
I'm older now than I've ever been before.
Carl Wills
2008-04-02 23:50:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
One thing is clear: you are not an agnostic. You just pretend to be.
I'm not arguing for religion or atheism, but I see both religious fundies
and atheist fundies as the same. Just opposite sides of the same coin.
Ah! Now we are somewhere! That is actually true. BUT we are talking
FUNDIES now. We weren't doing so before.
Well? I'm not so sure. Anyone who states categorically there is no God.
Is not too different from the religionist who says without any reservation
God is real.
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Just a tiny sidenote.... I have yet to see an atheist suicide bomber.....
This is true, but suicide bombers are limited to fanatics of one certain
religion and only the most fanatical of them. I do not see this as an
all-embracing ecumenical religious movement. IOW I don't see Jews,
Christians, Buddhist blowing themselves up and other people along
with themselves.
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Tokay
--
No wonder I feel so tired -
I'm older now than I've ever been before.
Tokay Pino Gris
2008-04-03 00:30:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
One thing is clear: you are not an agnostic. You just pretend to be.
I'm not arguing for religion or atheism, but I see both religious fundies
and atheist fundies as the same. Just opposite sides of the same coin.
Ah! Now we are somewhere! That is actually true. BUT we are talking
FUNDIES now. We weren't doing so before.
Well? I'm not so sure. Anyone who states categorically there is no God.
Is not too different from the religionist who says without any reservation
God is real.
Yes. I am not arguing this.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Just a tiny sidenote.... I have yet to see an atheist suicide bomber.....
This is true, but suicide bombers are limited to fanatics of one certain
religion and only the most fanatical of them. I do not see this as an
all-embracing ecumenical religious movement. IOW I don't see Jews,
Christians, Buddhist blowing themselves up and other people along
with themselves.
That's why it was "just a tiny sidenote". Oh, probably not only ONE
religion, although those suicide bombers from that specific religion you
had in mind do get a lot of media coverage.

Tokay
--
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of
that.

J.S. Mill
thomas p.
2008-04-03 14:16:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
One thing is clear: you are not an agnostic. You just pretend to be.
I'm not arguing for religion or atheism, but I see both religious fundies
and atheist fundies as the same. Just opposite sides of the same coin.
Ah! Now we are somewhere! That is actually true. BUT we are talking
FUNDIES now. We weren't doing so before.
Well? I'm not so sure. Anyone who states categorically there is no God.
Is not too different from the religionist who says without any reservation
God is real.
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Just a tiny sidenote.... I have yet to see an atheist suicide bomber.....
This is true, but suicide bombers are limited to fanatics of one certain
religion and only the most fanatical of them. I do not see this as an
all-embracing ecumenical religious movement. IOW I don't see Jews,
Christians, Buddhist blowing themselves up and other people along
with themselves.
All the religions mentioned have had examples of fanantical and bloody
behavior justified by individual sects' or individuals' understanding of
dogma. Having no belief in any deity cannot be compared to dogma. You
might find an atheist who is a fanatic of one kind or another, but you will
find absolutely nothing in atheism that justifies it; as has been said
before, no matter what an individual atheist may say or believe, no matter
what position an individual atheist might take, atheism is not a religion.
It is merely the lack of theism.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Tokay
--
No wonder I feel so tired -
I'm older now than I've ever been before.
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 15:30:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
One thing is clear: you are not an agnostic. You just pretend to be.
I'm not arguing for religion or atheism, but I see both religious fundies
and atheist fundies as the same. Just opposite sides of the same coin.
Ah! Now we are somewhere! That is actually true. BUT we are talking
FUNDIES now. We weren't doing so before.
Well? I'm not so sure. Anyone who states categorically there is no God.
Is not too different from the religionist who says without any reservation
God is real.
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Just a tiny sidenote.... I have yet to see an atheist suicide bomber.....
This is true, but suicide bombers are limited to fanatics of one certain
religion and only the most fanatical of them. I do not see this as an
all-embracing ecumenical religious movement. IOW I don't see Jews,
Christians, Buddhist blowing themselves up and other people along
with themselves.
All the religions mentioned have had examples of fanantical and bloody
behavior justified by individual sects' or individuals' understanding of
dogma.
Perhaps, but I find nothing in the news that mentionions Jews, Christians
or Buddhist involved in bloodshed where religion is the motivating factor.
Having no belief in any deity cannot be compared to dogma. You
Post by thomas p.
might find an atheist who is a fanatic of one kind or another, but you
will find absolutely nothing in atheism that justifies it;
That's true. But that's only half of the picture. There is nothing in
atheism
that justifies violence, but what is there in atheism that impugns, speaks
out
against or hinders it? Paul Pot, Mao, Lenin, Stalin etc. were atheist.

as has been said
Post by thomas p.
before, no matter what an individual atheist may say or believe, no matter
what position an individual atheist might take, atheism is not a religion.
It is merely the lack of theism.
I never said atheism is a religion. But it does address a religious topic
that of itself gives atheism a religious nature. I know a bona fide atheist.
He will not discuss religion. If the topic arises he leaves the scene. He
refuses to discuss anything pertaining to religion or of a religious nature.
He is a genuine atheist. Many so-called atheist have made atheism their
religion. And they want to undermine religion or convert religious
people to atheism. And the do this by attacking religious dogma and
faith. But usually under a guise or a cover story, ie protecting religious
freedom for everyone or else innocent victems of religious prosyalers
who attacked atheist first.
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Tokay
--
No wonder I feel so tired -
I'm older now than I've ever been before.
thomas p.
2008-04-03 19:12:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
One thing is clear: you are not an agnostic. You just pretend to be.
I'm not arguing for religion or atheism, but I see both religious fundies
and atheist fundies as the same. Just opposite sides of the same coin.
Ah! Now we are somewhere! That is actually true. BUT we are talking
FUNDIES now. We weren't doing so before.
Well? I'm not so sure. Anyone who states categorically there is no God.
Is not too different from the religionist who says without any reservation
God is real.
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Just a tiny sidenote.... I have yet to see an atheist suicide bomber.....
This is true, but suicide bombers are limited to fanatics of one certain
religion and only the most fanatical of them. I do not see this as an
all-embracing ecumenical religious movement. IOW I don't see Jews,
Christians, Buddhist blowing themselves up and other people along
with themselves.
All the religions mentioned have had examples of fanantical and bloody
behavior justified by individual sects' or individuals' understanding of
dogma.
Perhaps, but I find nothing in the news that mentionions Jews, Christians
or Buddhist involved in bloodshed where religion is the motivating factor.
Then you are not reading the news. If you are going to claim that there
were political motivations, I would wonder why you ignore that they also
exist for the Moslem fanatics. It is odd that you, an agnostic, seem to be
taking sides. It makes one wonder about your integrity.
Post by Carl Wills
Having no belief in any deity cannot be compared to dogma. You
Post by thomas p.
might find an atheist who is a fanatic of one kind or another, but you
will find absolutely nothing in atheism that justifies it;
That's true. But that's only half of the picture. There is nothing in
atheism
that justifies violence, but what is there in atheism that impugns, speaks
out
against or hinders it? Paul Pot, Mao, Lenin, Stalin etc. were atheist.
as has been said
Post by thomas p.
before, no matter what an individual atheist may say or believe, no
matter what position an individual atheist might take, atheism is not a
religion. It is merely the lack of theism.
I never said atheism is a religion. But it does address a religious topic
that of itself gives atheism a religious nature. I know a bona fide atheist.
He will not discuss religion. If the topic arises he leaves the scene. He
refuses to discuss anything pertaining to religion or of a religious nature.
He is a genuine atheist. Many so-called atheist have made atheism their
religion. And they want to undermine religion or convert religious
people to atheism. And the do this by attacking religious dogma and
faith. But usually under a guise or a cover story, ie protecting religious
freedom for everyone or else innocent victems of religious prosyalers
who attacked atheist first.
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Tokay
--
No wonder I feel so tired -
I'm older now than I've ever been before.
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 21:08:49 UTC
Permalink
<snip><snip>
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
This is true, but suicide bombers are limited to fanatics of one certain
religion and only the most fanatical of them. I do not see this as an
all-embracing ecumenical religious movement. IOW I don't see Jews,
Christians, Buddhist blowing themselves up and other people along
with themselves.
All the religions mentioned have had examples of fanantical and bloody
behavior justified by individual sects' or individuals' understanding of
dogma.
Perhaps, but I find nothing in the news that mentionions Jews, Christians
or Buddhist involved in bloodshed where religion is the motivating factor.
Then you are not reading the news. If you are going to claim that there
were political motivations, I would wonder why you ignore that they also
exist for the Moslem fanatics.
In the above paragraph I intimated Moslems fanatics who strap bombs on
themselves blowing themselves up along with other people.
Who did you think I was refering to above?

These killers do this for the promise of 72 virgins in the hereafter. This
is
purely selvish motivation.
It is odd that you, an agnostic, seem to be
taking sides.
I realize that it does, and I'm appalled. I feel _pushed_ in this
direction. I think it is inadvertent because the backgrown or the
context in which I find myelf. In the company of Christians,
they think I am an atheist pretending to be agnostic.
But in their mind you are a Christian or an unbeliever.
Agnosticism is still unbelief.
It makes one wonder about your integrity.
I hope I explained my position to your satisfaction.
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Having no belief in any deity cannot be compared to dogma. You
Post by thomas p.
might find an atheist who is a fanatic of one kind or another, but you
will find absolutely nothing in atheism that justifies it;
That's true. But that's only half of the picture. There is nothing in
atheism
that justifies violence, but what is there in atheism that impugns,
speaks out
against or hinders it? Paul Pot, Mao, Lenin, Stalin etc. were atheist.
as has been said
Post by thomas p.
before, no matter what an individual atheist may say or believe, no
matter what position an individual atheist might take, atheism is not a
religion. It is merely the lack of theism.
I never said atheism is a religion. But it does address a religious topic
that of itself gives atheism a religious nature. I know a bona fide atheist.
He will not discuss religion. If the topic arises he leaves the scene. He
refuses to discuss anything pertaining to religion or of a religious nature.
He is a genuine atheist. Many so-called atheist have made atheism their
religion. And they want to undermine religion or convert religious
people to atheism. And the do this by attacking religious dogma and
faith. But usually under a guise or a cover story, ie protecting religious
freedom for everyone or else innocent victems of religious prosyalers
who attacked atheist first.
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Tokay
--
No wonder I feel so tired -
I'm older now than I've ever been before.
thomas p.
2008-04-04 06:04:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
<snip><snip>
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
This is true, but suicide bombers are limited to fanatics of one certain
religion and only the most fanatical of them. I do not see this as an
all-embracing ecumenical religious movement. IOW I don't see Jews,
Christians, Buddhist blowing themselves up and other people along
with themselves.
All the religions mentioned have had examples of fanantical and bloody
behavior justified by individual sects' or individuals' understanding
of dogma.
Perhaps, but I find nothing in the news that mentionions Jews, Christians
or Buddhist involved in bloodshed where religion is the motivating factor.
Then you are not reading the news. If you are going to claim that there
were political motivations, I would wonder why you ignore that they also
exist for the Moslem fanatics.
In the above paragraph I intimated Moslems fanatics who strap bombs on
themselves blowing themselves up along with other people.
Who did you think I was refering to above?
Moslem fanatics, and I said nothing to suggest anything else.
Post by Carl Wills
These killers do this for the promise of 72 virgins in the hereafter. This
is
purely selvish motivation.
Yes, and?
Post by Carl Wills
It is odd that you, an agnostic, seem to be
taking sides.
I realize that it does, and I'm appalled. I feel _pushed_ in this
direction. I think it is inadvertent because the backgrown or the
context in which I find myelf. In the company of Christians,
they think I am an atheist pretending to be agnostic.
But in their mind you are a Christian or an unbeliever.
Agnosticism is still unbelief.
No, agnosticism is not unbelief; nor is the above a relevant response to
what I wrote.
Post by Carl Wills
It makes one wonder about your integrity.
I hope I explained my position to your satisfaction.
That you are a Christian? Yes you have.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Having no belief in any deity cannot be compared to dogma. You
Post by thomas p.
might find an atheist who is a fanatic of one kind or another, but you
will find absolutely nothing in atheism that justifies it;
That's true. But that's only half of the picture. There is nothing in
atheism
that justifies violence, but what is there in atheism that impugns,
speaks out
against or hinders it? Paul Pot, Mao, Lenin, Stalin etc. were atheist.
as has been said
Post by thomas p.
before, no matter what an individual atheist may say or believe, no
matter what position an individual atheist might take, atheism is not a
religion. It is merely the lack of theism.
I never said atheism is a religion. But it does address a religious topic
that of itself gives atheism a religious nature. I know a bona fide atheist.
He will not discuss religion. If the topic arises he leaves the scene. He
refuses to discuss anything pertaining to religion or of a religious nature.
He is a genuine atheist. Many so-called atheist have made atheism their
religion. And they want to undermine religion or convert religious
people to atheism. And the do this by attacking religious dogma and
faith. But usually under a guise or a cover story, ie protecting religious
freedom for everyone or else innocent victems of religious prosyalers
who attacked atheist first.
Yes, you are definitely a Christian.
Dennis Kemmerer
2008-04-03 19:32:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious
position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
One thing is clear: you are not an agnostic. You just pretend to be.
I'm not arguing for religion or atheism, but I see both religious fundies
and atheist fundies as the same. Just opposite sides of the same coin.
Ah! Now we are somewhere! That is actually true. BUT we are talking
FUNDIES now. We weren't doing so before.
Well? I'm not so sure. Anyone who states categorically there is no God.
Is not too different from the religionist who says without any reservation
God is real.
Post by Tokay Pino Gris
Just a tiny sidenote.... I have yet to see an atheist suicide bomber.....
This is true, but suicide bombers are limited to fanatics of one certain
religion and only the most fanatical of them. I do not see this as an
all-embracing ecumenical religious movement. IOW I don't see Jews,
Christians, Buddhist blowing themselves up and other people along
with themselves.
All the religions mentioned have had examples of fanantical and bloody
behavior justified by individual sects' or individuals' understanding of
dogma.
Perhaps, but I find nothing in the news that mentionions Jews, Christians
or Buddhist involved in bloodshed where religion is the motivating factor.
Then you are not reading the news. If you are going to claim that there
were political motivations, I would wonder why you ignore that they also
exist for the Moslem fanatics. It is odd that you, an agnostic, seem to
be taking sides. It makes one wonder about your integrity.
He's a religionist in sheep's clothing. It's OK though; he's not nearly
smart enough to understand either the metaphor or the analogy.
Milan
2008-04-03 22:34:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
I never said atheism is a religion. But it does address a religious topic
that of itself gives atheism a religious nature. I know a bona fide atheist.
He will not discuss religion. If the topic arises he leaves the scene. He
refuses to discuss anything pertaining to religion or of a religious nature.
Why's that good? Fighting superstition and stupidity is the good fight.
Post by Carl Wills
He is a genuine atheist.
He seems to be a gutless, apathetic, useless person.

Just imagine if Mandela had opposed apartheid like your friend opposes
religious superstition. We would still have apartheid in South Africa.
Post by Carl Wills
Many so-called atheist have made atheism their
religion. And they want to undermine religion or convert religious
people to atheism.
You are talking rubbish. To commit yourself to a cause is not the same as
to make such cause a religion.
Post by Carl Wills
And the do this by attacking religious dogma and
faith.
And more power to their arm.
Post by Carl Wills
But usually under a guise or a cover story, ie protecting religious
freedom for everyone or else innocent victems of religious prosyalers
who attacked atheist first.
Bollocks. They do it because they genuinely believe religion is irrational
and evil. Read some Mencken, Bradlaugh or Ingersoll.

regards
Milan
Carl Wills
2008-04-04 01:18:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
I never said atheism is a religion. But it does address a religious topic
that of itself gives atheism a religious nature. I know a bona fide atheist.
He will not discuss religion. If the topic arises he leaves the scene. He
refuses to discuss anything pertaining to religion or of a religious nature.
Why's that good? Fighting superstition and stupidity is the good fight.
Post by Carl Wills
He is a genuine atheist.
He seems to be a gutless, apathetic, useless person.
No, he accepts freedom of religion for others as well as himself.
Post by Milan
Just imagine if Mandela had opposed apartheid like your friend opposes
religious superstition. We would still have apartheid in South Africa.
Post by Carl Wills
Many so-called atheist have made atheism their
religion. And they want to undermine religion or convert religious
people to atheism.
You are talking rubbish. To commit yourself to a cause is not the same as
to make such cause a religion.
This is the heart of the issue. For all practical purposes there is no
difference.
Who is capable of passing judgement on causes. Iw what causees is evil and
which causes is good.
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
And the do this by attacking religious dogma and
faith.
And more power to their arm.
So you don't believe in freedom of religion. I can accept that, some
people don't.
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
But usually under a guise or a cover story, ie protecting religious
freedom for everyone or else innocent victems of religious prosyalers
who attacked atheist first.
Bollocks. They do it because they genuinely believe religion is irrational
and evil. Read some Mencken, Bradlaugh or Ingersoll.
Unless you equate evil and good as having an equal right to exist, and
you decide that someperson or some cause is evil,

Do you think that evil and good are equal and have equal right to exist?
Obviously, evil does not have the same standing or the same rights as good.
Does evil even have a right to exist? If not, who decides what is good and
what is evil? Given the political power and authority what is to stop you
from going on a path to "eradicating evil"? To become judge and jury.
This is a dangerous direction. But it is one that has been taken in the
former USSR, China and Cuba. And it could happen in the USA.
Post by Milan
regards
Milan
Michael Gray
2008-04-04 10:15:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
I never said atheism is a religion. But it does address a religious topic
that of itself gives atheism a religious nature. I know a bona fide atheist.
He will not discuss religion. If the topic arises he leaves the scene. He
refuses to discuss anything pertaining to religion or of a religious nature.
Why's that good? Fighting superstition and stupidity is the good fight.
Post by Carl Wills
He is a genuine atheist.
He seems to be a gutless, apathetic, useless person.
No, he accepts freedom of religion for others as well as himself.
And you accept the freedom for someone to infect you with influenza
and HIV, I take it?

Carl Wills
2008-04-03 00:27:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
One thing is clear: you are not an agnostic. You just pretend to be.
Why do you make this assertion? I don't consider myself to be
a religious person. I don't attend any religious orgaizations, I
do not claim to have had a religious experience. I am not sure
whether or not a God exist. So what does this make me?
Post by Milan
regards
Milan
Milan
2008-04-03 22:35:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
One thing is clear: you are not an agnostic. You just pretend to be.
Why do you make this assertion? I don't consider myself to be
a religious person. I don't attend any religious orgaizations, I
do not claim to have had a religious experience. I am not sure
whether or not a God exist. So what does this make me?
Somebody who tries to pass for an agnostic. If you are really an agnostic,
then either you have not thought what it entails too carefully, or you are a
complete moron.

regards
Milan
Carl Wills
2008-04-04 00:45:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
One thing is clear: you are not an agnostic. You just pretend to be.
Why do you make this assertion? I don't consider myself to be
a religious person. I don't attend any religious orgaizations, I
do not claim to have had a religious experience. I am not sure
whether or not a God exist. So what does this make me?
Somebody who tries to pass for an agnostic. If you are really an agnostic,
then either you have not thought what it entails too carefully, or you are
a complete moron.
I am agnostic! Regardless of what you say. It seem that the context I find
myself, shades the image. When in the company of Christians or Jews
they see me as a atheist. But atheist see me as a theist. As one of the
brighter
poster commented. To white, grey seems black, to black, grey seems white.
Post by Milan
regards
Milan
Milan
2008-04-04 02:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Richo
been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
It is an opinion without any evidence in any case.
Post by Richo
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist" with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
If it doesn't rest upon direct empirical evidence it is a faith.
Unless a person can back up the assertion with evidence, it
is a faith.
One thing is clear: you are not an agnostic. You just pretend to be.
Why do you make this assertion? I don't consider myself to be
a religious person. I don't attend any religious orgaizations, I
do not claim to have had a religious experience. I am not sure
whether or not a God exist. So what does this make me?
Somebody who tries to pass for an agnostic. If you are really an
agnostic, then either you have not thought what it entails too carefully,
or you are a complete moron.
I am agnostic! Regardless of what you say. It seem that the context I find
myself, shades the image. When in the company of Christians or Jews
they see me as a atheist. But atheist see me as a theist. As one of the
brighter
poster commented. To white, grey seems black, to black, grey seems white.
I think he was being sarcastic. It was lost on you.

regards
Milan
d***@.
2008-04-02 06:16:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richo
Post by Carl Wills
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
An atheist doesn't believe in any god at all including God.
Atheism is not actually about "God".
An atheist may claim there is no God - but it isn't a requirement.
Atheism is a religious position like you say, but it is not a
religion.
Atheism isn't a statement. Making a statement is not what makes you an
atheist. Neither a provable nor a non provable one.
It may take faith to claim 'God doesn't exist"
It does. The amusing though extremely pathetic part is that
many who have that faith attempt to deny it. Doing that brings
to mind the question of whether they are honestly stupid enough
to believe it somehow, or they are dishonestly pretending to be
more stupid than they are for some reason.
Post by Richo
with a sufficiently
general and vague definition of faith but atheism isn't "a faith".
_________________________________________________________
. . .
Strong atheism is a term generally used to describe atheists who accept
as true the proposition, "gods do not exist". Weak atheism refers to any
type of non-theism which falls short of this standard.
. . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weak_and_strong_atheism
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Andrew W
2008-04-01 05:52:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Actually atheism isn't a religion. Let me show you how.
Firstly, 'religion' is basically any idea or belief that is pursued
religiously.
In the real sense a religion has regular gatherings, a central person or
object that is worshipped and obeyed, and a central rigid doctrine that must
not be deviated from.

Now, only 'militant' atheists claim with any passion that there is no god.
Why do they do this?
Answer: They do it only in response to the annoying proselytising of fundy
proselytiser religionists who make public spectacles of themselves and
spread false messages of fear, guilt, punishment and doom.

Conclusion: As soon as religionists stop their annoying proselytising about
ancient esoteric writings and concepts of which they know practically
nothing because they are just common folk and not studied scholars, and stop
trying to give childish pious explanations about how the universe was
created as if they have advanced privy knowledge, and stop telling us that
we are all rotten sinners deserving eternal punishment in a fire because
someone picked a fruit off a tree somewhere a long long time ago, then the
militant atheists will all stop doing what they're doing and go back to
doing what other people do.

As for non militant atheists, they just mind their own business so they
cannot in any way be said to be a religion.

So remember, theists MADE militant atheists.
--
Andrew W.

Christians say that atheists are arrogant.
If Christian wisdom is inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit then why
doesn't the Holy Spirit ever correct a Christian when they make a false
conclusion/claim about God's will? Such an occurrence has never been
documented. Do Christians assume that all their conclusions are correct?
Isn't that arrogance? And wouldn't this lead to a religion that ends up
believing all kinds of things that aren't true?

You must unlearn what you have learned. ~ Yoda

Channelled lessons about ET's, ascended masters like Jesus Christ, spirit
guides, earth changes.
http://www.spiritnexus.com/audio/channeling/index.htm

The true Creator wants us to be happy and abundant.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Science_of_Getting_Rich
Audio version. http://website.lineone.net/~cornerstone/richaudio.htm

Think you know what ego is? Think again. The Bible is full of it!
http://www.acim.org/

Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
Carl Wills
2008-04-01 20:57:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew W
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Actually atheism isn't a religion. Let me show you how.
Firstly, 'religion' is basically any idea or belief that is pursued
religiously.
Marxism for example!
Post by Andrew W
In the real sense a religion has regular gatherings, a central person or
object that is worshipped and obeyed, and a central rigid doctrine that
must not be deviated from.
This best describes a cult with a cult figure.
Post by Andrew W
Now, only 'militant' atheists claim with any passion that there is no god.
Why do they do this?
Answer: They do it only in response to the annoying proselytising of fundy
proselytiser religionists who make public spectacles of themselves and
spread false messages of fear, guilt, punishment and doom.
Just this past afternoon, I had two Mormon "Missionaries" call on us.
I resented their appearance at my door. I informed them, when asked
that we were non believers and belonged to no church. They thanked me
and just left. This surprised me. I didn't expect it to be so easy.
Post by Andrew W
Conclusion: As soon as religionists stop their annoying proselytising
about ancient esoteric writings and concepts of which they know
practically nothing because they are just common folk and not studied
scholars, and stop trying to give childish pious explanations about how
the universe was created as if they have advanced privy knowledge, and
stop telling us that we are all rotten sinners deserving eternal
punishment in a fire because someone picked a fruit off a tree somewhere a
long long time ago, then the militant atheists will all stop doing what
they're doing and go back to doing what other people do.
As for non militant atheists, they just mind their own business so they
cannot in any way be said to be a religion.
So remember, theists MADE militant atheists.
--
Andrew W.
Christians say that atheists are arrogant.
If Christian wisdom is inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit then why
doesn't the Holy Spirit ever correct a Christian when they make a false
conclusion/claim about God's will? Such an occurrence has never been
documented. Do Christians assume that all their conclusions are correct?
Isn't that arrogance? And wouldn't this lead to a religion that ends up
believing all kinds of things that aren't true?
You must unlearn what you have learned. ~ Yoda
Channelled lessons about ET's, ascended masters like Jesus Christ, spirit
guides, earth changes.
http://www.spiritnexus.com/audio/channeling/index.htm
The true Creator wants us to be happy and abundant.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Science_of_Getting_Rich
Audio version. http://website.lineone.net/~cornerstone/richaudio.htm
Think you know what ego is? Think again. The Bible is full of it!
http://www.acim.org/
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
d***@.
2008-04-02 06:16:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew W
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Actually atheism isn't a religion. Let me show you how.
Firstly, 'religion' is basically any idea or belief that is pursued
religiously.
In the real sense a religion has regular gatherings, a central person or
object that is worshipped and obeyed, and a central rigid doctrine that must
not be deviated from.
Now, only 'militant' atheists claim with any passion that there is no god.
Why do they do this?
Answer: They do it only in response to the annoying proselytising of fundy
proselytiser religionists who make public spectacles of themselves and
spread false messages of fear, guilt, punishment and doom.
Why should anyone put their faith in your belief, do you have
any idea?
Andrew W
2008-04-02 21:09:40 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 16:52:06 +1100, "Andrew W"
Post by Andrew W
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Actually atheism isn't a religion. Let me show you how.
Firstly, 'religion' is basically any idea or belief that is pursued
religiously.
In the real sense a religion has regular gatherings, a central person or
object that is worshipped and obeyed, and a central rigid doctrine that must
not be deviated from.
Now, only 'militant' atheists claim with any passion that there is no god.
Why do they do this?
Answer: They do it only in response to the annoying proselytising of fundy
proselytiser religionists who make public spectacles of themselves and
spread false messages of fear, guilt, punishment and doom.
Why should anyone put their faith in your belief, do you have
any idea?
Don't take my word for it, sus it out for yourself.
Faith in what someone says is not going to help you here.
Use your own brain to figure out why militant atheists are motivated to do
what they do.
If you can come up with a better reason why otherwise ordinary people would
go out of their way to announce why an anthropomorphic yet invisible God
does NOT exist then I'm all ears. No one would go around trying to assert a
negative.
--
Andrew W.

Christianity teaches that we have free will and choice, but then they tell
us that God punishes us for doing what we want. How does that work exactly?
We have free will yet we have to follow God's will or be tortured in hell
forever. You can't do both at the same time.

You must unlearn what you have learned. ~ Yoda

Channelled lessons about ET's, ascended masters like Jesus Christ, spirit
guides, earth changes.
http://www.spiritnexus.com/audio/channeling/index.htm

The true Creator wants us to be happy and abundant.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Science_of_Getting_Rich
Audio version. http://website.lineone.net/~cornerstone/richaudio.htm

Think you know what ego is? Think again. The Bible is full of it!
http://www.acim.org/

Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
d***@.
2008-04-03 08:57:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew W
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 16:52:06 +1100, "Andrew W"
Post by Andrew W
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Actually atheism isn't a religion. Let me show you how.
Firstly, 'religion' is basically any idea or belief that is pursued
religiously.
In the real sense a religion has regular gatherings, a central person or
object that is worshipped and obeyed, and a central rigid doctrine that must
not be deviated from.
Now, only 'militant' atheists claim with any passion that there is no god.
Why do they do this?
Answer: They do it only in response to the annoying proselytising of fundy
proselytiser religionists who make public spectacles of themselves and
spread false messages of fear, guilt, punishment and doom.
Why should anyone put their faith in your belief, do you have
any idea?
Don't take my word for it,
I believe that's the best advice someone has given so far.
Post by Andrew W
sus it out for yourself.
That's been continuous as long as I can remember.
Post by Andrew W
Faith in what someone says is not going to help you here.
Use your own brain to figure out why militant atheists are motivated to do
what they do.
It appears they are afraid of something. If the beast does
exist, no doubt he influences their thinking as much as he
cares to. They will amusingly deny that, which is to be
expected even as absurd and naive as it is.
Post by Andrew W
If you can come up with a better reason why otherwise ordinary people would
go out of their way to announce why an anthropomorphic yet invisible God
does NOT exist then I'm all ears. No one would go around trying to assert a
negative.
These people often make it clear that they disbelieve in
God, while at the same time claim for some strange reason
to have no belief at all. Why would anyone do that? Why
in tf would a *lot* of people do that???
Milan
2008-04-03 22:39:42 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 08:09:40 +1100, "Andrew W"
Post by Andrew W
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 16:52:06 +1100, "Andrew W"
Post by Andrew W
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position,
it
is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Actually atheism isn't a religion. Let me show you how.
Firstly, 'religion' is basically any idea or belief that is pursued
religiously.
In the real sense a religion has regular gatherings, a central person or
object that is worshipped and obeyed, and a central rigid doctrine that must
not be deviated from.
Now, only 'militant' atheists claim with any passion that there is no god.
Why do they do this?
Answer: They do it only in response to the annoying proselytising of fundy
proselytiser religionists who make public spectacles of themselves and
spread false messages of fear, guilt, punishment and doom.
Why should anyone put their faith in your belief, do you have
any idea?
Don't take my word for it,
I believe that's the best advice someone has given so far.
Post by Andrew W
sus it out for yourself.
That's been continuous as long as I can remember.
Post by Andrew W
Faith in what someone says is not going to help you here.
Use your own brain to figure out why militant atheists are motivated to do
what they do.
It appears they are afraid of something. If the beast does
exist, no doubt he influences their thinking as much as he
cares to. They will amusingly deny that, which is to be
expected even as absurd and naive as it is.
Post by Andrew W
If you can come up with a better reason why otherwise ordinary people would
go out of their way to announce why an anthropomorphic yet invisible God
does NOT exist then I'm all ears. No one would go around trying to assert a
negative.
These people often make it clear that they disbelieve in
God, while at the same time claim for some strange reason
to have no belief at all. Why would anyone do that? Why
in tf would a *lot* of people do that???
Maybe because a disbelief is not a belief?

regards
Milan
Andrew W
2008-04-04 02:53:49 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 08:09:40 +1100, "Andrew W"
Post by Andrew W
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 16:52:06 +1100, "Andrew W"
Post by Andrew W
Actually atheism isn't a religion. Let me show you how.
Firstly, 'religion' is basically any idea or belief that is pursued
religiously.
In the real sense a religion has regular gatherings, a central person or
object that is worshipped and obeyed, and a central rigid doctrine that must
not be deviated from.
Now, only 'militant' atheists claim with any passion that there is no god.
Why do they do this?
Answer: They do it only in response to the annoying proselytising of fundy
proselytiser religionists who make public spectacles of themselves and
spread false messages of fear, guilt, punishment and doom.
Why should anyone put their faith in your belief, do you have
any idea?
Don't take my word for it,
I believe that's the best advice someone has given so far.
Post by Andrew W
sus it out for yourself.
That's been continuous as long as I can remember.
Post by Andrew W
Faith in what someone says is not going to help you here.
Use your own brain to figure out why militant atheists are motivated to do
what they do.
It appears they are afraid of something. If the beast does
exist, no doubt he influences their thinking as much as he
cares to. They will amusingly deny that, which is to be
expected even as absurd and naive as it is.
If they are afraid of anything then it would be the divine judgment and
punishment, but that's only if they buy into what theists say.
The beast is the personification of the ego. There is no devil person out to
get us. Our only enemies are our own egos.
Post by Andrew W
If you can come up with a better reason why otherwise ordinary people would
go out of their way to announce why an anthropomorphic yet invisible God
does NOT exist then I'm all ears. No one would go around trying to assert a
negative.
These people often make it clear that they disbelieve in
God, while at the same time claim for some strange reason
to have no belief at all. Why would anyone do that? Why
in tf would a *lot* of people do that???
You will notice that they only deny the existence of God when they are
conversing with theists. Otherwise they mind their own business. Why would
someone be running away from something for which there is no evidence? Try
putting yourself in their shoes. Not everyone thinks like a theist.
--
Andrew W.

Christianity teaches that we have free will and choice, but then they tell
us that God punishes us for doing what we want. How does that work exactly?
We have free will yet we have to follow God's will or be tortured in hell
forever. You can't do both at the same time.

You must unlearn what you have learned. ~ Yoda

Channelled lessons about ET's, ascended masters like Jesus Christ, spirit
guides, earth changes.
http://www.spiritnexus.com/audio/channeling/index.htm

The true Creator wants us to be happy and abundant.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Science_of_Getting_Rich
Audio version. http://website.lineone.net/~cornerstone/richaudio.htm

Think you know what ego is? Think again. The Bible is full of it!
http://www.acim.org/

Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
thomas p.
2008-04-01 07:26:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
More importantly it is not atheism, regardless if an atheist says it.
Atheism is lack of theist belief. Whatever else an individual atheist
believes or does not believe in is in addition to that. What theists hope
to gain by constantly repeating the silly lie that atheism is a religion is
beyond me; perhaps it just makes them feel better.
Carl Wills
2008-04-02 18:00:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
More importantly it is not atheism, regardless if an atheist says it.
Atheism is lack of theist belief. Whatever else an individual atheist
believes or does not believe in is in addition to that. What theists hope
to gain by constantly repeating the silly lie that atheism is a religion
is beyond me; perhaps it just makes them feel better.
Why does it matter?
thomas p.
2008-04-02 19:09:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
More importantly it is not atheism, regardless if an atheist says it.
Atheism is lack of theist belief. Whatever else an individual atheist
believes or does not believe in is in addition to that. What theists
hope to gain by constantly repeating the silly lie that atheism is a
religion is beyond me; perhaps it just makes them feel better.
Why does it matter?
You tell me. You are discussing it.
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 05:24:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
More importantly it is not atheism, regardless if an atheist says it.
Atheism is lack of theist belief. Whatever else an individual atheist
believes or does not believe in is in addition to that. What theists
hope to gain by constantly repeating the silly lie that atheism is a
religion is beyond me; perhaps it just makes them feel better.
Why does it matter?
You tell me. You are discussing it.
I not discussing religion. I get nothing from religion.
thomas p.
2008-04-03 14:19:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
More importantly it is not atheism, regardless if an atheist says it.
Atheism is lack of theist belief. Whatever else an individual atheist
believes or does not believe in is in addition to that. What theists
hope to gain by constantly repeating the silly lie that atheism is a
religion is beyond me; perhaps it just makes them feel better.
Why does it matter?
You tell me. You are discussing it.
I not discussing religion. I get nothing from religion.
You are indeed discussing religion, belief, and atheism.
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 14:39:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
More importantly it is not atheism, regardless if an atheist says it.
Atheism is lack of theist belief. Whatever else an individual atheist
believes or does not believe in is in addition to that. What theists
hope to gain by constantly repeating the silly lie that atheism is a
religion is beyond me; perhaps it just makes them feel better.
Why does it matter?
You tell me. You are discussing it.
I not discussing religion. I get nothing from religion.
You are indeed discussing religion, belief, and atheism.
You are right, I should have said I'm not advocating religion. That would
have been more in line with what I meant.
thomas p.
2008-04-03 19:14:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
More importantly it is not atheism, regardless if an atheist says it.
Atheism is lack of theist belief. Whatever else an individual
atheist believes or does not believe in is in addition to that. What
theists hope to gain by constantly repeating the silly lie that
atheism is a religion is beyond me; perhaps it just makes them feel
better.
Why does it matter?
You tell me. You are discussing it.
I not discussing religion. I get nothing from religion.
You are indeed discussing religion, belief, and atheism.
You are right, I should have said I'm not advocating religion. That would
have been more in line with what I meant.
It woud not, however, been responsive to my post, nor would it be, in my
opinion, the truth.
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 21:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
More importantly it is not atheism, regardless if an atheist says
it. Atheism is lack of theist belief. Whatever else an individual
atheist believes or does not believe in is in addition to that.
What theists hope to gain by constantly repeating the silly lie that
atheism is a religion is beyond me; perhaps it just makes them feel
better.
Why does it matter?
You tell me. You are discussing it.
I not discussing religion. I get nothing from religion.
You are indeed discussing religion, belief, and atheism.
You are right, I should have said I'm not advocating religion. That would
have been more in line with what I meant.
It woud not, however, been responsive to my post, nor would it be, in my
opinion, the truth.
You think I am advocating religion? ( I've lost sight of your post which I
have
been unresponsive)
Carl Wills
2008-04-04 00:40:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
More importantly it is not atheism, regardless if an atheist says it.
Atheism is lack of theist belief. Whatever else an individual atheist
believes or does not believe in is in addition to that. What theists
hope to gain by constantly repeating the silly lie that atheism is a
religion is beyond me; perhaps it just makes them feel better.
Why does it matter?
You tell me. You are discussing it.
I'm not advocating anything.
d***@.
2008-04-02 06:17:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
More importantly it is not atheism, regardless if an atheist says it.
Atheism is lack of theist belief. Whatever else an individual atheist
believes or does not believe in is in addition to that. What theists hope
to gain by constantly repeating the silly lie that atheism is a religion is
beyond me;
It is a religious belief.
Post by thomas p.
perhaps it just makes them feel better.
It helps people keep in mind that atheism is just another belief
like all the reast, instead of being more than that as atheists want
people to believe it is.
Syd
2008-04-02 20:28:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@.
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
More importantly it is not atheism, regardless if an atheist says it.
Atheism is lack of theist belief. Whatever else an individual atheist
believes or does not believe in is in addition to that. What theists hope
to gain by constantly repeating the silly lie that atheism is a religion is
beyond me;
It is a religious belief.
No.
You are wrong, no matter how many of you repeat it, or how often.
Post by d***@.
Post by thomas p.
perhaps it just makes them feel better.
It helps people keep in mind that atheism is just another belief
like all the reast, instead of being more than that as atheists want
people to believe it is.
Atheist could care less who believes it. It's just jackasses like you
who won't accept that we are what we say we are.

PDW
d***@.
2008-04-03 08:48:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Syd
Post by d***@.
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
More importantly it is not atheism, regardless if an atheist says it.
Atheism is lack of theist belief. Whatever else an individual atheist
believes or does not believe in is in addition to that. What theists hope
to gain by constantly repeating the silly lie that atheism is a religion is
beyond me;
It is a religious belief.
No.
You are wrong, no matter how many of you repeat it, or how often.
Post by d***@.
Post by thomas p.
perhaps it just makes them feel better.
It helps people keep in mind that atheism is just another belief
like all the reast, instead of being more than that as atheists want
people to believe it is.
Atheist could care less who believes it. It's just jackasses like you
who won't accept that we are what we say we are.
Often it appears to be strong atheists who don't want to accept
what they are. So far I have a list of one who will. I invite you to
step up and admit your own faith, and help the list to grow.
Milan
2008-04-03 22:44:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@.
Post by Syd
Post by d***@.
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position,
it
is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
More importantly it is not atheism, regardless if an atheist says it.
Atheism is lack of theist belief. Whatever else an individual atheist
believes or does not believe in is in addition to that. What theists hope
to gain by constantly repeating the silly lie that atheism is a religion is
beyond me;
It is a religious belief.
No.
You are wrong, no matter how many of you repeat it, or how often.
Post by d***@.
Post by thomas p.
perhaps it just makes them feel better.
It helps people keep in mind that atheism is just another belief
like all the reast, instead of being more than that as atheists want
people to believe it is.
Atheist could care less who believes it. It's just jackasses like you
who won't accept that we are what we say we are.
Often it appears to be strong atheists who don't want to accept
what they are. So far I have a list of one who will. I invite you to
step up and admit your own faith, and help the list to grow.
The concept of "god" is too puerile to take seriously. To talk about strong
or weak atheists doesnt clarify the issue. The issue is that "gods" are
imaginary entities not to be taken seriously. Just like elfs and goblins.
They belong in children's stories. To make them the subject of philosophical
discussions is to grant them an importance that they cannot have. We need to
laugh in the face of those who believe in god.

regards
Milan
Milan
2008-04-03 22:47:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@.
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
More importantly it is not atheism, regardless if an atheist says it.
Atheism is lack of theist belief. Whatever else an individual atheist
believes or does not believe in is in addition to that. What theists hope
to gain by constantly repeating the silly lie that atheism is a religion is
beyond me;
It is a religious belief.
In the same way as baldness is a hair colour. Sorry to repeat an old joke,
but your stupidity requires no subtlety, but clarity.

regards
Milan
thomas p.
2008-04-04 06:08:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milan
Post by d***@.
Post by thomas p.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position,
it
is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
More importantly it is not atheism, regardless if an atheist says it.
Atheism is lack of theist belief. Whatever else an individual atheist
believes or does not believe in is in addition to that. What theists hope
to gain by constantly repeating the silly lie that atheism is a religion is
beyond me;
It is a religious belief.
In the same way as baldness is a hair colour. Sorry to repeat an old joke,
but your stupidity requires no subtlety, but clarity.
It is incredible how long he has continued to play his silly word game.
Post by Milan
regards
Milan
Sanity's Little Helper
2008-04-01 08:14:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has
been and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a
religion and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of
Americans dislike atheism more than they do most of the other
repulsives in our society. Live with the facts and be thankful that
you are permitted to do so. In some societies which include the major
population of the most practiced religious belief you would be stoned
to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position,
it is a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an
statement of faith.
Not for me, it isn't. It is the result of a lentgthy, detailed process of
examination of various issues, but first, so we're reading from the same
page, which particular god are you referring to? This is important
because, since any god is - by definition - an imaginary construct, then
there are an infinite number of possible gods. I personally made up 26 of
them, is it one of them? Is it, for example, Mistabit, the god of
overpriced window cleaners?
--
David Silverman D.B.E.
BAAWA
aa #2208
Lord Mayor of Dis
Lawful copyright holder of the term "Earthquack".
Holder of rights to the stage musical "The Shining".

Not authentic without this signature.
d***@.
2008-04-02 06:17:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanity's Little Helper
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has
been and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a
religion and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of
Americans dislike atheism more than they do most of the other
repulsives in our society. Live with the facts and be thankful that
you are permitted to do so. In some societies which include the major
population of the most practiced religious belief you would be stoned
to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position,
it is a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an
statement of faith.
Not for me, it isn't. It is the result of a lentgthy, detailed process of
examination of various issues,
The conclusion you have come to from the supposed process
is what you have faith in. Why do you want to deny that, do you
have any idea?
Post by Sanity's Little Helper
but first, so we're reading from the same
page, which particular god are you referring to?
The God that exists if there is one. Even an atheist
sould be able to figure that out...at least it seems like
even an atheist should be able to.
Milan
2008-04-03 22:37:55 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:14:23 +0200 (CEST), "Sanity's Little Helper"
Post by Sanity's Little Helper
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has
been and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a
religion and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of
Americans dislike atheism more than they do most of the other
repulsives in our society. Live with the facts and be thankful that
you are permitted to do so. In some societies which include the major
population of the most practiced religious belief you would be stoned
to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position,
it is a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an
statement of faith.
Not for me, it isn't. It is the result of a lentgthy, detailed process of
examination of various issues,
The conclusion you have come to from the supposed process
is what you have faith in. Why do you want to deny that, do you
have any idea?
Post by Sanity's Little Helper
but first, so we're reading from the same
page, which particular god are you referring to?
The God that exists if there is one. Even an atheist
sould be able to figure that out...at least it seems like
even an atheist should be able to.
The question is , what is a god? Without this information we don't know what
to look for, do we?

regards
Milan
Michael Gray
2008-04-01 09:11:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
I have come to the conclusion that you an ineducable fuckwit, who
repeaedly mis-characterises the lack of theism for your own strange
and morally corrupt benefit.
d***@.
2008-04-02 06:17:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
I have come to the conclusion that you an ineducable fuckwit, who
repeaedly mis-characterises the lack of theism
Do you even know why you deny your own faith?
Syd
2008-04-02 20:29:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@.
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
I have come to the conclusion that you an ineducable fuckwit, who
repeaedly mis-characterises the lack of theism
Do you even know why you deny your own faith?
...Because he has no "faith", oh clueless one?

PDW, damn you people are ignorant.
d***@.
2008-04-03 08:56:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Syd
Post by d***@.
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
I have come to the conclusion that you an ineducable fuckwit, who
repeaedly mis-characterises the lack of theism
Do you even know why you deny your own faith?
...Because he has no "faith",
Maybe. Or maybe he has faith that he is ashamed to admit. My
guess at this point would be that you do too.
Post by Syd
oh clueless one?
PDW, damn you people are ignorant.
I'm learning a lot though. For example: A few months ago I would
have guessed that most strong atheists are proud of their beliefs, but
since then I've learned that the majority of them amusingly appear
to be ashamed of everything they have faith in. It's pathetic, but still
amusing.
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 02:17:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
I have come to the conclusion that you an ineducable fuckwit, who
repeaedly mis-characterises the lack of theism for your own strange
and morally corrupt benefit.
Do you think you win arguments by insulting peopl? It makes you
look like a damn fool.
Milan
2008-04-03 02:49:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
I have come to the conclusion that you an ineducable fuckwit, who
repeaedly mis-characterises the lack of theism for your own strange
and morally corrupt benefit.
Do you think you win arguments by insulting peopl? It makes you
look like a damn fool.
No. It doesnt. He's just stating the obvious. You are indeed a fuckwit.

regards
Milan
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 05:20:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
I have come to the conclusion that you an ineducable fuckwit, who
repeaedly mis-characterises the lack of theism for your own strange
and morally corrupt benefit.
Do you think you win arguments by insulting peopl? It makes you
look like a damn fool.
No. It doesnt. He's just stating the obvious. You are indeed a fuckwit.
I gave you more credit than you deserve. IOW I thought you were moderately
intelligent. I was wrong.
Post by Milan
regards
Milan
Michael Gray
2008-04-03 11:16:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
I have come to the conclusion that you an ineducable fuckwit, who
repeaedly mis-characterises the lack of theism for your own strange
and morally corrupt benefit.
Do you think you win arguments by insulting peopl? It makes you
look like a damn fool.
Why do you assume that asserions of fact are insults?
You then turn around and do exactly what you accuse me of, by calling
me a 'fool' for relaying reality!
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 15:39:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
I have come to the conclusion that you an ineducable fuckwit, who
repeaedly mis-characterises the lack of theism for your own strange
and morally corrupt benefit.
Do you think you win arguments by insulting peopl? It makes you
look like a damn fool.
Why do you assume that asserions of fact are insults?
You then turn around and do exactly what you accuse me of, by calling
me a 'fool' for relaying reality!
Your very first comment to me was insult. I don't appreciate deliberate
insults. Those who do this are fools and I do not suffer fools at all. I
will not respond to fools again. This is my last response to a fool. I
don't know whether there is a hell or not but I wish there were, I would
send you there directly. So good bye bastard!
thomas p.
2008-04-03 14:26:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Michael Gray
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
I have come to the conclusion that you an ineducable fuckwit, who
repeaedly mis-characterises the lack of theism for your own strange
and morally corrupt benefit.
Do you think you win arguments by insulting peopl? It makes you
look like a damn fool.
Not when the description fits. I suspect that you are also misrepresenting
yourself.
Nosterill
2008-04-01 13:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
There is a difference between believing that there is no God and not
believing that there is a god. The latter describes my position
better. The former makes it very specific - which is exactly what it
isn't.

If there was a specific denial of the god of Christian mythology - and
no other - then you might have a point, but I don't know of anyone who
holds that view. I do not find a reason to believe in any gods,
demons, pixies, leprechauns, unicorns, wyverns, werewolves or any
other supernatural phenomena for which there is inadequate empirical
evidence. If such evidence ever did come to light, then I would have
to review my position accordingly.
d***@.
2008-04-02 06:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nosterill
Post by Carl Wills
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
There is a difference between believing that there is no God and not
believing that there is a god. The latter describes my position
better. The former makes it very specific - which is exactly what it
isn't.
That's the faith he referred to and we have been seeing
that atheists are usually ashamed of.
Post by Nosterill
If there was a specific denial of the god of Christian mythology - and
no other - then you might have a point, but I don't know of anyone who
holds that view.
If a creator exists then all who refer to him refer to the same
being regardless of what they call him or what they think about
him.
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 00:15:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nosterill
said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
There is a difference between believing that there is no God and not
believing that there is a god. The latter describes my position
better. The former makes it very specific - which is exactly what it
isn't.
You realize this! In this respect you are much smarter than most who
post to these newsgroups.
Post by Nosterill
If there was a specific denial of the god of Christian mythology - and
no other - then you might have a point, but I don't know of anyone who
holds that view. I do not find a reason to believe in any gods,
I'm agnostic, I don't know and don't claim to know. I believe this is
the most logical and reasonable position. I dispise people who claim
not only to know that God exist, but that he favors their particular
religion.
Post by Nosterill
demons, pixies, leprechauns, unicorns, wyverns, werewolves or any
other supernatural phenomena
Right! No one I ever come into contact believes any any of the critters
you referenced. But most of these, if they existed, would be flesh and
blood.

for which there is inadequate empirical
Post by Nosterill
evidence. If such evidence ever did come to light, then I would have
to review my position accordingly.
There can be no empirical evidence of a God. Nor can any supernatural
being tested by scientific means.
Milan
2008-04-03 02:58:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Nosterill
said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
There is a difference between believing that there is no God and not
believing that there is a god. The latter describes my position
better. The former makes it very specific - which is exactly what it
isn't.
You realize this! In this respect you are much smarter than most who
post to these newsgroups.
Post by Nosterill
If there was a specific denial of the god of Christian mythology - and
no other - then you might have a point, but I don't know of anyone who
holds that view. I do not find a reason to believe in any gods,
I'm agnostic, I don't know and don't claim to know. I believe this is
the most logical and reasonable position. I dispise people who claim
not only to know that God exist, but that he favors their particular
religion.
Post by Nosterill
demons, pixies, leprechauns, unicorns, wyverns, werewolves or any
other supernatural phenomena
Right! No one I ever come into contact believes any any of the critters
you referenced. But most of these, if they existed, would be flesh and
blood.
for which there is inadequate empirical
Post by Nosterill
evidence. If such evidence ever did come to light, then I would have
to review my position accordingly.
There can be no empirical evidence of a God. Nor can any supernatural
being tested by scientific means.
Quite a few believers in the judeo-christian mythology believe that god
parted the waters of the Red sea, stopped the sun in the sky, gave Moses a
couple of stone tablets , sent plagues, and did quite a few other
picturesque things that -according to the bible- were witnessed by many
people. If you believe this kind of rubbish then it seems obvious that the
workings of a god generate evidence that can be observed.

regards
Milan
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 05:21:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Nosterill
said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
There is a difference between believing that there is no God and not
believing that there is a god. The latter describes my position
better. The former makes it very specific - which is exactly what it
isn't.
You realize this! In this respect you are much smarter than most who
post to these newsgroups.
Post by Nosterill
If there was a specific denial of the god of Christian mythology - and
no other - then you might have a point, but I don't know of anyone who
holds that view. I do not find a reason to believe in any gods,
I'm agnostic, I don't know and don't claim to know. I believe this is
the most logical and reasonable position. I dispise people who claim
not only to know that God exist, but that he favors their particular
religion.
Post by Nosterill
demons, pixies, leprechauns, unicorns, wyverns, werewolves or any
other supernatural phenomena
Right! No one I ever come into contact believes any any of the critters
you referenced. But most of these, if they existed, would be flesh and
blood.
for which there is inadequate empirical
Post by Nosterill
evidence. If such evidence ever did come to light, then I would have
to review my position accordingly.
There can be no empirical evidence of a God. Nor can any supernatural
being tested by scientific means.
Quite a few believers in the judeo-christian mythology believe that god
parted the waters of the Red sea, stopped the sun in the sky, gave Moses a
couple of stone tablets , sent plagues, and did quite a few other
picturesque things that -according to the bible- were witnessed by many
people. If you believe this kind of rubbish then it seems obvious that the
workings of a god generate evidence that can be observed.
What exactly does this have to do with anything I have written?
Post by Milan
regards
Milan
Milan
2008-04-03 17:35:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Nosterill
been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
There is a difference between believing that there is no God and not
believing that there is a god. The latter describes my position
better. The former makes it very specific - which is exactly what it
isn't.
You realize this! In this respect you are much smarter than most who
post to these newsgroups.
Post by Nosterill
If there was a specific denial of the god of Christian mythology - and
no other - then you might have a point, but I don't know of anyone who
holds that view. I do not find a reason to believe in any gods,
I'm agnostic, I don't know and don't claim to know. I believe this is
the most logical and reasonable position. I dispise people who claim
not only to know that God exist, but that he favors their particular
religion.
Post by Nosterill
demons, pixies, leprechauns, unicorns, wyverns, werewolves or any
other supernatural phenomena
Right! No one I ever come into contact believes any any of the critters
you referenced. But most of these, if they existed, would be flesh and
blood.
for which there is inadequate empirical
Post by Nosterill
evidence. If such evidence ever did come to light, then I would have
to review my position accordingly.
There can be no empirical evidence of a God. Nor can any supernatural
being tested by scientific means.
Quite a few believers in the judeo-christian mythology believe that god
parted the waters of the Red sea, stopped the sun in the sky, gave Moses
a couple of stone tablets , sent plagues, and did quite a few other
picturesque things that -according to the bible- were witnessed by many
people. If you believe this kind of rubbish then it seems obvious that
the workings of a god generate evidence that can be observed.
What exactly does this have to do with anything I have written?
Well, it seems that some gods (like the god of the israelites, better known
as Yahweh, or simply "God") do things that generate empirical evidence.

regards
Milan
Tervicz
2008-04-02 03:12:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
A religion is a theistic ideology. It tells people how to live their
lives in the light of the deities it worships. Atheism isn't even an
ideology, neither is monotheism on its own or polytheism. These are
merely foundations on which ideologies and religions can be forged.
Dennis Kemmerer
2008-04-02 04:20:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tervicz
said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
A religion is a theistic ideology. It tells people how to live their
lives in the light of the deities it worships. Atheism isn't even an
ideology, neither is monotheism on its own or polytheism. These are
merely foundations on which ideologies and religions can be forged.
Theists cannot grasp that concept.
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 00:29:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis Kemmerer
Post by Tervicz
said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
A religion is a theistic ideology. It tells people how to live their
lives in the light of the deities it worships. Atheism isn't even an
ideology, neither is monotheism on its own or polytheism. These are
merely foundations on which ideologies and religions can be forged.
Theists cannot grasp that concept.
I see no indication you grasp his comment.
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 00:02:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tervicz
said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
A religion is a theistic ideology. It tells people how to live their
lives in the light of the deities it worships.
There is a religious fervor that is seen in several idologies, including
slavish devotion to communism or a political party even dedication
to ones business.
Post by Tervicz
Atheism isn't even an
ideology, neither is monotheism on its own or polytheism. These are
merely foundations on which ideologies and religions can be forged.
But it is a disposition against and a rejection of a deity. This is a
religious
stance. Some millitant atheist are dedicated to removing any and all
religious icons and symbols from the public square.
Tervicz
2008-04-03 07:42:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tervicz
said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
A religion is a theistic ideology. It tells people how to live their
lives in the light of the deities it worships.
There is a religious fervor that is seen in several idologies, including
slavish devotion to communism or a political party even dedication
to ones business.
Basically ideologies and religions are almost the same thing. A
religion is a theistic ideology. One or more deities are to be
worshipped in order to repel bad luck and/or achieve immortality.
Ideologies and religions tell people how their lives should be lived
and how their society should be structured and function. Sometimes
it's partially, sometimes it covers all aspects.
Religions and ideologies are not bad by themselves. On paper they
always look great to those who write them down. Over time however they
can get twisted and transformed into tools of oppression and serve
those wanting to rule and to keep their ruling.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tervicz
Atheism isn't even an
ideology, neither is monotheism on its own or polytheism. These are
merely foundations on which ideologies and religions can be forged.
But it is a disposition against and a rejection of a deity. This is a
religious stance.
It's a disbelief on all deities. Your disbelief against dragons and
fairies you may very well consider a religious stance, but is it a
religion itself? And neither is our disbelief in deities. Is it a
religious stance? You may think so. I don't, for me it's a logical
conclusion seeing the wilderness of our world, the indifference, the
chaos led into patterns by a handful of natural laws,
Post by Carl Wills
Some millitant atheist are dedicated to removing any and all
religious icons and symbols from the public square.
Democracy is yet another ideology, although it is often forgotten to
be an ideology. And it's a very non-theistic ideology, although it may
be explained by the theists otherwise. Because unlike with monarchies
and empires, it's the population which decides who rules and how this
rule should take shape. Separation of church and state are one of the
pillars a free and modern democracy, because within the population and
those elected or trying to get elected all religions and ideologies
are represented. Maybe this isn't the case in the US, but it is in
many European countries and even atheist and agnostic politicians do
get elected.

A government is neutral to all believes and religions. And since it's
impossible to represent all religions and ideologies in all
courthouses, public schools and other government institution. Would
you prefer it if a half-moon would sit right next to Jesus' cross
along with all the other symbols of religions and ideologies of our
world? Or how about the hammer and sickle, symbols of the "communist
religion " as you yourself put it? Shouldn't this symbol also deserve
a place in your local courthouse? Everyone is free to choose a
religion, right? And since the government is neutral, it can either
embrace all or none of their symbols.
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 16:05:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tervicz
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tervicz
been
said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position,
it
is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
A religion is a theistic ideology. It tells people how to live their
lives in the light of the deities it worships.
There is a religious fervor that is seen in several idologies, including
slavish devotion to communism or a political party even dedication
to ones business.
Basically ideologies and religions are almost the same thing. A
religion is a theistic ideology. One or more deities are to be
worshipped in order to repel bad luck and/or achieve immortality.
Ideologies and religions tell people how their lives should be lived
and how their society should be structured and function. Sometimes
it's partially, sometimes it covers all aspects.
Religions and ideologies are not bad by themselves. On paper they
always look great to those who write them down. Over time however they
can get twisted and transformed into tools of oppression and serve
those wanting to rule and to keep their ruling.
This is often true, but remember Stalin, Paul Pot, Mao etc. They did not
justify enslaving masses of people based on religion, but they had nothing
which hindered of forbid using extreme violence to obtain and keep
a tyrannical reign. If it meant murdering millions, in their mind there
was no right or wrong. Just whatever it took to maintain dictatorial
control.
Post by Tervicz
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tervicz
Atheism isn't even an
ideology, neither is monotheism on its own or polytheism. These are
merely foundations on which ideologies and religions can be forged.
But it is a disposition against and a rejection of a deity. This is a
religious stance.
It's a disbelief on all deities. Your disbelief against dragons and
fairies you may very well consider a religious stance, but is it a
religion itself?
If dragons and fairies were a religion, then yes If I were opposed
it would be a religious stance.
And neither is our disbelief in deities. Is it a
Post by Tervicz
religious stance? You may think so. I don't, for me it's a logical
conclusion seeing the wilderness of our world, the indifference, the
chaos led into patterns by a handful of natural laws,
Post by Carl Wills
Some millitant atheist are dedicated to removing any and all
religious icons and symbols from the public square.
Democracy is yet another ideology, although it is often forgotten to
be an ideology. And it's a very non-theistic ideology, although it may
be explained by the theists otherwise. Because unlike with monarchies
and empires, it's the population which decides who rules and how this
rule should take shape. Separation of church and state are one of the
pillars a free and modern democracy, because within the population and
those elected or trying to get elected all religions and ideologies
are represented. Maybe this isn't the case in the US, but it is in
many European countries and even atheist and agnostic politicians do
get elected.
Agreed.
Post by Tervicz
A government is neutral to all believes and religions. And since it's
impossible to represent all religions and ideologies in all
courthouses, public schools and other government institution. Would
you prefer it if a half-moon would sit right next to Jesus' cross
along with all the other symbols of religions and ideologies of our
world? Or how about the hammer and sickle, symbols of the "communist
religion " as you yourself put it? Shouldn't this symbol also deserve
a place in your local courthouse? Everyone is free to choose a
religion, right? And since the government is neutral, it can either
embrace all or none of their symbols.
I would oppose the communist hammer and sickle in American
institutions, but not in countries where the majority were communist.
But if I were to take a stance against communism in China, Cuba or
the former USSR. I have no doubt I would be defined and identified
by my stance in respect to communism.
Tervicz
2008-04-03 17:34:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
This is often true, but remember Stalin, Paul Pot, Mao etc. They did not
justify enslaving masses of people based on religion, but they had nothing
which hindered of forbid using extreme violence to obtain and keep
a tyrannical reign. If it meant murdering millions, in their mind there
was no right or wrong. Just whatever it took to maintain dictatorial
control.
A dictatorship is a government which legitimises itself through
violence. There have been many dictators in our history, and they all
do the same no matter what religious or ideological back ground they
abuse to sell themselves. Look at South America's history or Africa's
history. No dictatorship, no matter what ideology or religion it
exploits, restrains the violence that keeps it in place even if it
means destroying the country and everyone in it.
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tervicz
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Tervicz
Atheism isn't even an
ideology, neither is monotheism on its own or polytheism. These are
merely foundations on which ideologies and religions can be forged.
But it is a disposition against and a rejection of a deity. This is a
religious stance.
It's a disbelief on all deities. Your disbelief against dragons and
fairies you may very well consider a religious stance, but is it a
religion itself?
If dragons and fairies were a religion, then yes If I were opposed
it would be a religious stance.
They were once part of the old German religions.
Post by Carl Wills
And neither is our disbelief in deities. Is it a
Post by Tervicz
religious stance? You may think so. I don't, for me it's a logical
conclusion seeing the wilderness of our world, the indifference, the
chaos led into patterns by a handful of natural laws,
Post by Carl Wills
Some millitant atheist are dedicated to removing any and all
religious icons and symbols from the public square.
Democracy is yet another ideology, although it is often forgotten to
be an ideology. And it's a very non-theistic ideology, although it may
be explained by the theists otherwise. Because unlike with monarchies
and empires, it's the population which decides who rules and how this
rule should take shape. Separation of church and state are one of the
pillars a free and modern democracy, because within the population and
those elected or trying to get elected all religions and ideologies
are represented. Maybe this isn't the case in the US, but it is in
many European countries and even atheist and agnostic politicians do
get elected.
Agreed.
Post by Tervicz
A government is neutral to all believes and religions. And since it's
impossible to represent all religions and ideologies in all
courthouses, public schools and other government institution. Would
you prefer it if a half-moon would sit right next to Jesus' cross
along with all the other symbols of religions and ideologies of our
world? Or how about the hammer and sickle, symbols of the "communist
religion " as you yourself put it? Shouldn't this symbol also deserve
a place in your local courthouse? Everyone is free to choose a
religion, right? And since the government is neutral, it can either
embrace all or none of their symbols.
I would oppose the communist hammer and sickle in American
institutions, but not in countries where the majority were communist.
But if I were to take a stance against communism in China, Cuba or
the former USSR. I have no doubt I would be defined and identified
by my stance in respect to communism.
Yes, because they are dictatorships. If you would go to Iran and take
a stance against Islam, same thing would happen.
Syd M.
2008-04-02 07:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
...And you'll continue to be wrong no matter how many times you trot
out this "argument".

PDW
Mike
2008-04-02 08:28:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
No Carl. Faith means to believe something in the absence of a logical
reason to think its true. That is NOT what atheists do when they
disbelieve in God. I cannot prove that there does not exist a God.
So what? I also cannot prove that unicorns do not exist, nor fairies,
nor ghosts, etc. I assume that you do not wish to claim that we
should be agnostic about the existence of unicorns since proof cannot
resolve the question of existence or nonexistence. Do you think that
your disbelief in the Loch Ness Monster and centaurs is a matter of
FAITH rather than reason????? I am agnostic about the existence of a
hypothetical Supreme Being to the same extent that I am agnostic about
the existence of a purple giraffe inhabiting a planet orbiting the
star Alpha Centauri. I say, not impossible, but WHERE'S THE FUCKING
EVIDENCE???
Mark K. Bilbo
2008-04-02 15:49:17 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:07:55 -0400 in
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion and
just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans dislike
atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our society.
Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to do so. In
some societies which include the major population of the most practiced
religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it
is a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Atheism is being without theism which is belief in one or more gods.

That is not a "religious" position. Never has been, never will be. No
matter *how* many times people lie about the word "atheism".
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"If the Bible proves that God exists then comic books prove
the existence of Superman."
d***@.
2008-04-02 06:18:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Absolutely. And it's amusing to see them rush to deny their
own faith, as if they can actually get people to accept their
denial.
Kenneth Doyle
2008-04-02 23:10:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Absolutely. And it's amusing to see them rush to deny their
own faith, as if they can actually get people to accept their
denial.
Interesting statement; it reveals your confusion. You are confusing
atheism in general, with a particular world view.

I don't simply believe that there is no supernatural force or being of
any kind, I *know* that so far I haven't seen any evidence that would
support the existence of such a force or being (the usual facts in
evidence being either self-contradictory or better explained in the
absence of outlandish presuppositions or unusable hearsay). In that
context, I should say that I believe that gods do not exist, but that is
a world view based on the rules of evidence that I have accepted. Some
atheists have different rules of evidence. They might insist, for
example, that since gods can't be proved not to exist *in general* then
it's illogical to say that gods don't exist.

So the term "atheist" can't be used to infer what sort of world view a
person might have, and therefore can't properly be said to be any sort
of religion. Of course, you'd have to accept my take on religion as a
world view that all members must at least claim to have in common.
d***@.
2008-04-03 08:52:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kenneth Doyle
Post by d***@.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Absolutely. And it's amusing to see them rush to deny their
own faith, as if they can actually get people to accept their
denial.
Interesting statement; it reveals your confusion. You are confusing
atheism in general, with a particular world view.
I don't simply believe that there is no supernatural force or being of
any kind, I *know* that so far I haven't seen any evidence that would
support the existence of such a force or being (the usual facts in
evidence being either self-contradictory or better explained in the
absence of outlandish presuppositions or unusable hearsay). In that
context, I should say that I believe that gods do not exist,
If that's what you believe then yes, that's what you should say.
Pathetically though, many do not.
Post by Kenneth Doyle
but that is
a world view based on the rules of evidence that I have accepted. Some
atheists have different rules of evidence. They might insist, for
example, that since gods can't be proved not to exist *in general* then
it's illogical to say that gods don't exist.
So the term "atheist" can't be used to infer what sort of world view a
person might have, and therefore can't properly be said to be any sort
of religion.
Strong atheism is the belief that a creator does not exist, which
is a type of religious belief.
Post by Kenneth Doyle
Of course, you'd have to accept my take on religion as a
world view that all members must at least claim to have in common.
Not necessarily. If we agree on it that would probably be enough,
even if we never got the whole rest of the world to agree with us.
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 00:39:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Absolutely. And it's amusing to see them rush to deny their
own faith, as if they can actually get people to accept their
denial.
For some, atheism is a religion. It takes a stance on religion.
IOW without religion, atheism would not have an idenity.
Dennis Kemmerer
2008-04-03 01:25:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by d***@.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Absolutely. And it's amusing to see them rush to deny their
own faith, as if they can actually get people to accept their
denial.
For some, atheism is a religion. It takes a stance on religion.
IOW without religion, atheism would not have an idenity.
Goddam, you really _are_ that stupid.
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 05:19:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis Kemmerer
Post by Carl Wills
Post by d***@.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Absolutely. And it's amusing to see them rush to deny their
own faith, as if they can actually get people to accept their
denial.
For some, atheism is a religion. It takes a stance on religion.
IOW without religion, atheism would not have an idenity.
Goddam, you really _are_ that stupid.
You are a fool
Dennis Kemmerer
2008-04-03 15:17:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Dennis Kemmerer
Post by Carl Wills
Post by d***@.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Absolutely. And it's amusing to see them rush to deny their
own faith, as if they can actually get people to accept their
denial.
For some, atheism is a religion. It takes a stance on religion.
IOW without religion, atheism would not have an idenity.
Goddam, you really _are_ that stupid.
You are a fool
Your mom.

IKYABWAI.

[plonk]
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 17:05:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis Kemmerer
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Dennis Kemmerer
Post by Carl Wills
Post by d***@.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Absolutely. And it's amusing to see them rush to deny their
own faith, as if they can actually get people to accept their
denial.
For some, atheism is a religion. It takes a stance on religion.
IOW without religion, atheism would not have an idenity.
Goddam, you really _are_ that stupid.
You are a fool
Your mom.
IKYABWAI.
[plonk]
This fool is also a coward who runs away!
Milan
2008-04-03 03:01:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by d***@.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Absolutely. And it's amusing to see them rush to deny their
own faith, as if they can actually get people to accept their
denial.
For some, atheism is a religion. It takes a stance on religion.
IOW without religion, atheism would not have an idenity.
It's hard to see whether you are a complete moron or just taking the piss.

regards
Milan
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 05:22:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Milan
Post by Carl Wills
Post by d***@.
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Absolutely. And it's amusing to see them rush to deny their
own faith, as if they can actually get people to accept their
denial.
For some, atheism is a religion. It takes a stance on religion.
IOW without religion, atheism would not have an idenity.
It's hard to see whether you are a complete moron or just taking the piss.
I never suspected you were such a godamn fool.
Post by Milan
regards
Milan
Zeligg
2008-04-03 14:35:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Faith is not necessarily religion. I have faith that my postman will
make it to my house every monday through saturday. Is that my
religion?

Zeligg

"For anyone who finds it odd that a smut peddler
would presume to speak on political matters,
let me say that I am not a pornographer trying
to rise to the level of politics.
...it is the attack-dog politics of the radical
conservative that has descended to the level of porn."

Larry Flynt
Carl Wills
2008-04-03 14:53:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zeligg
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Faith is not necessarily religion. I have faith that my postman will
make it to my house every monday through saturday. Is that my
religion?
No, but I think when it is, for or against God(s) or religion, then
it is religious. In most cases when someone is pro or con in
reference to anything they are identified with that.
Post by Zeligg
Zeligg
"For anyone who finds it odd that a smut peddler
would presume to speak on political matters,
let me say that I am not a pornographer trying
to rise to the level of politics.
...it is the attack-dog politics of the radical
conservative that has descended to the level of porn."
Larry Flynt
Milan
2008-04-03 17:33:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Wills
Post by Zeligg
Post by Carl Wills
After all has been said atheism remains a religion. It always has been
and always will be. You really shouldn't deny that it is a religion
and just go on with your closeted faith. A majority of Americans
dislike atheism more than they do most of the other repulsives in our
society. Live with the facts and be thankful that you are permitted to
do so. In some societies which include the major population of the
most practiced religious belief you would be stoned to death.
As long as atheist claim there is no God, it is a religious position, it is
a statement that cannot be proven. It is, therefore, an statement of
faith.
Faith is not necessarily religion. I have faith that my postman will
make it to my house every monday through saturday. Is that my
religion?
No, but I think when it is, for or against God(s) or religion, then
it is religious. In most cases when someone is pro or con in
reference to anything they are identified with that.
So, the faith that the postman will come is a postal faith. The faith that
the sun will come up is a solar faith. The faith that objects will fall to
the ground is a gravitatory faith. The faith that the postman will fall to
the ground is then a postal gravitatory faith. Your argument is purely
semantic and rather puerile at that. Please stop wasting bandwidth with your
retarded babble.

regards
Milan
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